Podcast: Inflation and the Paradoxical Pay Raise

The Busyness Paradox Episode #34: Inflation and the Paradoxical Pay Raise

What’s a paradoxical pay raise? It’s the kind where you get a raise and earn less than you did before. “Impossible!” you say? Odds are good you’ll soon think differently. On the one hand, companies big and small are socking away money to dole out raises in 2022. On the other, inflation is licking its lips, ready to devour those raises and go back for seconds. Join us as we discuss strategies for navigating this bumpy terrain with your buying power (mostly) intact.

Mentioned in This Episode:

7:33 – The Peter Schiff Show: Fed Unveils Field of Dreams Monetary Policy

14:03 – Big Pay Raises Are Coming in 2022, So Make Your Game Plan Now

Episode Transcript:

Frank Butler 0:17
Hello Busybodies, welcome to another episode of the Busyness Paradox. I’m Frank Butler here with Paul Harvey.

Paul Harvey 0:23
Good day, Frank.

Frank Butler 0:24
And today, we’re going to discuss inflation, and what that means for you, or what you should be doing for your pay.

Paul Harvey 0:33
Something that we haven’t really experienced in a very long time. Not to this extent anyway, most of our lifetimes I was born in ’77. What about you, Frank? 79?

Frank Butler 0:44

Paul Harvey 0:45
Good, you got the seven in front there. Yeah, you’re good. You’re in the club. You know, when we were born, we’re coming out of a time of high inflation.

Frank Butler 0:53

Paul Harvey 0:54
I remember my grandmother got me a CD, a certificate of deposit, when I was born. I think it was like a 16 years, 18 years, something like that. And the interest rate on that thing was like, 9%, or something like that, like…

Frank Butler 1:07

Paul Harvey 1:08
You know, just unheard of. But you know, that’s, that’s how they got out of that inflation mess back then, was to just crank the interest rates.

Frank Butler 1:15
What are they like, .6 or something right now?

Paul Harvey 1:18

Frank Butler 1:19
I mean, they’re so bad yeah.

Paul Harvey 1:21
They rounded to zero for a long time, like…any kind of interest return. So that’s probably gonna be changing. But the other side of it, where kind of like the entire nation taking a simultaneous pay cut, through no fault of our own, just due to inflation due to the eroding value of, in our case, the dollar. Even though it’s not directly involved with your employer, it’s still a pay cut. And, psychologically, pay cuts are never fun. So, we have much to discuss on this topic.

Frank Butler 1:50
Well, you know, and it’s interesting to discuss what’s driving some of this inflation. There’s a perfect storm, in a sense, that’s led to what we’re dealing with. I mean, on the one hand, the pandemic, the ongoing, seemingly never-ending pandemic, has been causing a lot of disruption down the supply chain. Most people will always think about the company that makes the product is sort of being “Oh, they’re just not keeping up with demand,” or “Oh, they’re intentionally reducing the amount of supply they have.” And in some cases, it might be true, but you’ve got to think about going down that supply chain, who are they buying? The things that they need to make the products that they make? You know, if you think about your your Charmin toilet paper, Charmin doesn’t own the farms that cut down the trees, and so on. That’s a whole different tier of labor, right, this organization.

Paul Harvey 2:46
And I think there was – just thinking, totally random and not interesting to anyone but me – when we lived in Tallahassee, do you remember there’s those tree farms all around? Yeah, like you drive down the road, and there just be like, miles and miles of trees that were forest, the trees that were like growing in these perfect rows? Apparently, those are mostly owned by the Scott paper company to make toilet paper.

Frank Butler 3:07
Yeah. And I think some of it, though, is still private farms that sell to others.

Paul Harvey 3:12
Yeah, that might have been what it was to privately held stuff. Yep. Anyway, your point is

Frank Butler 3:16
Yeah, there’s, just you know, but you need labor to cut down the trees. Yeah, and get those trees prepped to go through to the processing where they get pulped and then turned into basically that motion that gets turned into paper. And there’s multiple steps along the way, for the most part, right. And it’s not just the trees, there’s also the companies that make the chemicals that go into making that much that turns the stuff into paper. So there’s a lot of different pieces there that if if one of them goes down, you create a bottleneck. That bottleneck then creates a supply shortage, supply shortage, as we talked about with basic economics is supply and demand. If your supply starts to contract becomes more scarce, pricing will go up if the demand still high, just to help create a balance in that supply demand based on what the companies can do. And that’s basic part one of it. But there’s also other elements, right? I think the job shortages going on right now. And we had 3 million people who retire. I know, we talked about the great resignation, which is really more of a great migration, we’ve seen over 12 million people, quit their jobs and start new jobs. And I think that number is still going to keep going up with the more recent data that I’ve been seeing. But for the most part, only 3 million have left the workforce. But that’s 3 million people who’ve left the workforce, 3 million people. That’s a, that’s a big number. And so I think what we’re starting to see is that there’s those impacts, too, is that people are moving around 16 million people or 12 million people getting new jobs that are paying more, that’s not going to trigger inflation in its own right. But, you know, there’s still these elements at play where companies have to go out and find new people to replace those people and that costs money. And so eventually there is a certain component of that too. And there’s just a lot of other aspects. I mean, the ports have not been able to flush the amount of product through that they once been able to truckers are sitting on the sidelines. Paul, you have found something about the truckers?

Paul Harvey 5:05
Yeah, I think we need to do a whole episode on the trucking situation at some point. But we often hear about a shortage of truckers to the tune of like 60,000, give or take, in the US. And the farther I dig down this rabbit hole, it’s a really…I’ve always been a little bit fascinated with the trucking industry, like long haul trucking. Basically, what I keep finding again and again, is that there’s enough truckers sitting on the sidelines to fill the gap. And then some who are basically saying, you know, we’re gonna sit here and wait for you to treat us better pay us better, you make it worth my while, then I’ll come back. So it’s a bit of an artificial shortage, in that it is a shortage, but not one…it’s not because we don’t have enough truckers. It’s because we don’t have enough truckers that want to work under the dominant conditions of the trucking industry right now. I think it’s kind of fascinating.

Frank Butler 5:52
I think, again, as Paul said, we’re gonna we’re gonna probably have to do another episode just on the truckers, there’s a lot of issues in the trucking industry, there’s a lot of distrust and misinformation and a lot of lying. And it’s, it’s just, it’s a rough business to be in as a trucker. Now, I do want to kind of go off of that as well and just simply address something. This is not a US only situation either. Now, we are sitting at about 7% inflation for this last economic data that I’ve seen. But I’d like to come back to that number in a second. But go ahead. We’re not Yeah, and we’ll come back to that. But just broadly just kind of looking at other countries, we’re not alone. I mean, we’re seeing a lot of inflation across the board. We’re seeing, for example, Canada’s at 4.7%, the Eurozone is at 5%, the United Kingdom’s at 5.1. Now keep in mind, the United Kingdom has been experiencing inflation for a lot longer already, largely because of the Brexit aspect of it. So not only were they experiencing inflation around the Brexit time, they’re also now experiencing that other aspects of the inflation going on with things like the supply chain and all these other hosts of things that are coming together. Netherlands is at 5.7%, Spain, six and a half Mexico 7.36. Russia is at 8.4%. Germany, five, three, you know, so what you’re seeing in here is that this is a global sort of challenge for many countries. Now, some aren’t experiencing it the same way. Japan’s at point 6%, Saudi Arabia’s at 1.2, China’s at 1.5, so it’s not completely universal, but it is certainly hitting the more the typical economic powerhouses a little bit more. So yeah.

Paul Harvey 7:33
And I think that’s important to keep in mind because, especially in the US, we like to politicize everything, and everyone blames each other and government. And I mean, there’s…sure there’s blame to go around there, you know, our monetary policy for the last 15 years, really should have been creating inflation, more than it has been. There’s so much that goes into it, like you said, macroeconomic, microeconomic aspects supply and demand, but no matter how you slice and dice it, it’s mostly a global problem. And these are pretty big numbers being reported by the various governments around the world. And a lot of the numbers being reported by the various governments around the world are a little bit skewed towards the low side, which is bad for workers. The 7% you mentioned, which I believe just became official, as we record this, maybe two days ago, for 2021. In the US, like the close of the books, the final number for 2021, or something like 7.05%, which is the highest number since 1982. In the US. However…economist named Peter Schiff I was listening to the other day, had some good points on this. If we still measured inflation CPI consumer price index that we use, if we measured that the same way we did in 1982 2021, would have been the highest inflation rate ever in the US. So if we measured the same stuff in the same way, as we did in 1982, and 2021, we wouldn’t be looking at like 7% versus whatever it was 1982…like 8%, we’d be looking at like 15% versus 8%. I guess the single biggest change that’s happened is they used to include home pricing in the consumer price index. They’ve replaced that with something called owners equivalent rent, which is basically kind of like a fuzzy…

Frank Butler 9:19
That’s the mortgage rate basically, right?

Paul Harvey 9:21
I don’t think it’s…I don’t really know. It’s not like one thing. It’s like a calculation based on several things, weighted in certain ways. And it’s very much a blackbox thing from what I can tell. And not a lot of people seem to agree with it, but basically, it’s much lower. So that alone, apparently, according to this Peter Schiff, if you were to take that fuzzy new measure out and put back in the old way that we used to measure home pricing, we’d be somewhere in the 10 to 15% range. So as bad as 7% sounds, the point I’m trying to make. For most of us, the actual impact on our wallet is considerably more worse than that, especially if you buy a lot of stuff. Apparently, if you separate out goods and services, the increase in 2021 of services was 3.7%, which is pretty high. It’s the highest that we’ve had since 2007. But just the goods side of the equation up 10.7%. Yeah. So if you’re in a situation where you have to buy some stuff, either for your business, buy an equipment, right furniture for a house, whatever, then you’re you’re really getting hit hard.

Frank Butler 10:28
Yeah, I see that actually, in the guitar side of things. I like to watch the prices, both used and new market on guitars. And you can certainly tell there’s been an uptick in the pricing for a fair amount of guitars. And part of it, there is a supply chain crunch. And that’s helping drive up the used prices, much like we’re seeing in automobiles, right. But at the same time, there’s also the new prices that’s out there, those companies that can’t keep up have been increasing their prices. Because down the supply chain costs have gone up a little bit. Wood’s gotten more expensive, you know, those kinds of aspects. And part of it, again, there’s this sort of ripple effect that goes on. Now, what’s really interesting, though, and this one makes sense to me is industry concentration, right? The more concentrated the industry. So that means that the more almost monopolistic that industry is right? And not monopolies. I mean, it’s not just purely monopolies but you know, even oligopolies.

Paul Harvey 11:25
That sounds more like an oligopolistic scenario, yeah.

Frank Butler 11:29
Right, yeah. When you have fewer companies that provide those goods, one of them’s experiencing issues, that’s going to have a much more profound impact. Eggs, for example, the pandemic-related demand for beef, poultry and eggs have risen far more for beef and poultry than eggs, because eggs are not as concentrated as beef and poultry. And if you think about it, there has been less of an increase on that side of it. Because if one goes down, it’s not taking down the entire operation, what have you. And that’s what we’re seeing in the supply chain side of the of the chipmaking, right? You see most of the car companies are experiencing some issues, because there’s very few suppliers of those chips. That’s been a driver there.

Paul Harvey 12:11
So it’s a golden era for us vegetarians, Frank. Not a golden era for those of us in the market for a new pickup truck, because our current one is 12 years old and rusting to pieces, yeah. So it gives and it takes.

Frank Butler 12:23
Yeah hat’s part of the challenge of living in the north like that, with all the salting the roads.

Paul Harvey 12:27
Yes. Damn the brine.

Frank Butler 12:31
With that, though, the great resignation, right? We’re seeing people taking new jobs, with inflation going on with people getting paid more with people getting flexibility, it’s time for you to consider yourself your what you’re doing, and say, Is it time for me to look for a new job? Or should I ask for a pay raise or all of the above, it’s a good time to do so because right now, we’re seeing that the companies out there on average, are setting aside about 3.9% more budget for increasing salaries.

Paul Harvey 13:01
Which on the surface is an exciting thing. If you compare, even to the conservative measure of US inflation of 7%. If you get your 3.9% bump, you’re still not keeping up. But that’s kind of the nature of inflation. You know, it’s we’re…I think our focus is more on minimising the pay cut that you’re going to take because of inflation, you’re recognizing this inflation is probably not going away quickly, you sometimes hear “the fed will raise interest rates, and that’ll fix it.” That ship has kind of sailed at this point. So we’re probably in this inflation thing for a while. So something important to remember is that these things kind of compound, yeah, so even if you can only get yourself a 2%-3% raise, say, next year, this year, and then you get another one the year after that. That’s 3% on top of your increased salary from the previous 3% raise. Point being that smaller is better than no raise, it might be better than you think it is. But the bigger, the better. And it’s always a touchy subject. We all want to raise all the time, because who’s gonna say no to more money, but it’s a difficult thing to ask for. And oftentimes, if you don’t ask, you will not be given

Frank Butler 14:03
You will never ever get it. I think that’s…there’s been a lot of research done, I mean, I recall seeing pieces done around discussing the idea between Why do some people get paid more than others, and it’s just that they’re better negotiators. And you know that that’s a big part of it. A lot of people are afraid to negotiate their wages. But the article that kind of triggered this whole discussion is this one by Katherine Dill in the Wall Street Journal. And it says “big raises are coming in 2022. So make your game plan now.” And there’s some really interesting things out of that, right. Your rent is going to increase potentially, if you’re renting, but here’s the trick. Everybody knows inflation is going on. I think we all feel it. Unless you’re like uber rich and you have no idea what things cost,

Paul Harvey 14:43
Or you just haven’t had to buy anything in the last year.

Frank Butler 14:45
Right. And if you’ve been that fortuitous…

Paul Harvey 14:47
Keep doing what you’re doing, cuz

Frank Butler 14:49
Keep doing what you’re doing. You might be part of that FI/RE club, right, the one

Paul Harvey 14:51
that’s what I’m thinking

Frank Butler 14:52
Early retirement, kids/people, but if you really want to stay in your job, you really like your job. You want to stay there and You’re thinking about the process of negotiating a raise, don’t make it be about inflation, you got to really focus in on making it about what you’ve been bringing to the company, your skill sets your achievements.

Paul Harvey 15:11
Yeah I…I don’t fully agree with that argument. But go on.

Frank Butler 15:15
I think it’s better. I think it’s a better way to lead. I truly think that if you’re like, look, I’m doing all this, you know, I, I hope, I think part of it is that you’re going I hope you see that I’m doing these things. And they’re creating value for you, as my manager who I’m asking for this money, and for the company. Right?

Paul Harvey 15:30

Frank Butler 15:31
And I think you certainly don’t leave the inflation discussion off the table, either. It’s like, look, you know, inflation is crazy.

Paul Harvey 15:36
I think you can use that as the impetus for “why am I bringing this up right now?”

Frank Butler 15:40

Paul Harvey 15:38
It helps if that’s an accurate depiction of your situation, you know, if you are over-performing for the the salary or the wage that you’re earning, but have been reluctant to bring it up, then I think inflation is as good a lever as any to say, “now’s the time to address this.”

Frank Butler 15:38
Yeah, I would say…

Paul Harvey 15:38
I agree with the sentiment of the article, like, don’t say, just because of inflation, I need a raise.

Frank Butler 15:42
Right. Well, I think it is always good to start with, “Hey, I would like to talk about the possibility of a raise,” right? Don’t go in there and be like, I demand a raise, right? But you go to your boss and say, Look, I would love to have a conversation about a raise, here’s sort of what I’m thinking, this is what I brought to the table. And because we seeing inflation, where it’s at, I think it’s a good opportunity for me to boast about what I’ve been doing that I think has been contributing to making the company better.

Paul Harvey 16:26
And I think the more numbers you can bring into the conversation, the better for any job category, job description, you can imagine. At least here in the US, the government publishes all sorts of data on different percentile salaries for different career paths, varying based on different regions and cost of living in different parts of the country. The Bureau of Labor Statistics Bureau of Labor Statistics Has great stuff. Very great stuff. So there’s a lot you can just bring in with you to that conversation and say, you know, I’ve just been looking at this stuff. And you’re kind of giving the implication that the data tells me someone’s going to pay me these numbers for what I do. Do you want to be that person? Or do you want it to be someone else?

Frank Butler 17:02
And this article actually touches him based on that too? It’s like, go to Glassdoor go to PayScale, they will also share salaries for that occupation, as well. So it’s a good opportunity to use those extra tools to bring in more data, right? Okay, I’m making this, I’m seeing that the average is higher than I’m making. So let’s have a conversation about that, too. And to Paul’s point, that’s exactly what it is, right? There’s going to be somebody out there who’s willing to pay me more, which the article does have this idea of, quote, be prepared to secure and take another offer, quote, that’s something that is always useful, right? Hey, I’ve got an offer in hand…you can imagine now, of course, there’s a slippery slope with that. Oftentimes, there’s some challenges with people who are retained, to get that money. But I think right now, it’s, it’s a good time to do a play like that, especially if you want to stay with the organization you want, or the organization you’re with.

Paul Harvey 17:57
And there’s probably been no better time to make a play like that.

Frank Butler 18:00

Paul Harvey 18:01
A lot of people, myself included, really don’t like that game, go out, get yourself a competing job offer…

Frank Butler 18:06
Sometimes it’s the only way to get paid more

Paul Harvey 18:08
Yeah, sometimes it’s the only way. You know, I…I’ve never been able to get myself to do it solely for the purposes of getting a pay raise. It has been at times a byproduct of that. But I just like…I can’t deal with the guilt of going and wasting a bunch of people’s time and money going to the interview process. If you have no intention of actually taking the job. I just have a rough time with that. But like you say sometimes and education, arfield is sort of one of these higher ed anyway, it’s kind of the only card you have to play a lot of the time, like,

Frank Butler 18:39

Paul Harvey 18:39
“If you don’t show me proof that someone else is ready to snatch you up, like, in writing, then I…my my hands are tied, I’m sorry, there’s nothing I can do for you.” And that’s often true. You know, there’s bureaucratic walls in place, sometimes where you just can’t, can’t make the computer system, give this person a raise, unless you’ve got these other criteria met. Sometimes that’s the criteria that it takes.

Frank Butler 19:01
And that’s true in a lot of cases, right? There’s, there’s a lot of times that there’s policies in place that make it very difficult, like a job category is going to pay this range. And what you’re asking is outside that range, the only way they can make that happen is by having that extra offer. And then they usually will either create a new job category, or in a sense, promote you into that new job category or that step up, you know, whatever coordinator to or something to be able to get you that pay raise.

Paul Harvey 19:29
And you might not even know about that. That’s just like a back end, back end system, hidden promotion just to get around those restrictions. And don’t blame HR for that for them. Those HR folks, by and large, they just work with the systems they’re given. like they don’t make those decisions. Usually.

Frank Butler 19:45
And your you’re saying it too, and I was about to say there’s reasons these things exist. And a big part of the reason why these exists is to help make sure that they reduce the chances of liability when it comes to pay and favoritism.

Paul Harvey 20:00
Right. Yeah, I’m gonna give this guy a raise because I like he’s my drinking buddy or something.

Frank Butler 20:05

Paul Harvey 20:06
It’s, it’s all controls to prevent that kind of shenanigans.

Frank Butler 20:09
Right? But Exactly.

Paul Harvey 20:10

Frank Butler 20:11
Yeah. So a couple things we’ve said already, you know, do your due diligence, go out there and find out what the average pay is or people are making in your area of occupation. There’s the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there’s Glassdoor is PayScale, going, obviously talking about being able to be prepared to discuss your merits and why you should be getting paid more, bring a competing job offer if necessary. But there’s one other thing here too, that they mentioned, like don’t say number first, get your employer to say the number first. I’ve seen it oftentimes-

Paul Harvey 20:39
I like that.

Frank Butler 20:40
Yeah, I like it, too. I’ve seen it oftentimes, where somebody’s actually underpriced themselves. And the offer they they throw out is actually lower than what they were willing to pay you. So don’t put yourself in that position, let them come to you with an offer. If it’s too low, it’s insulting, that gives you an idea of what they value. If it’s if it’s higher than you expect, it should make you feel great, right? Because they’re giving you a number that they’ve concocted that they think you’re worth. So that’s a big one, too.

Paul Harvey 21:11
I’d just say you might be surprised, especially if you are…a lot of people think that they are above average employees, kind of like everyone thinks they’re an above average driver. If you truly are, you know, a high performing employee, you might be surprised at what an employer will spend to keep you there. Oftentimes, that’s where the competing job offer, unfortunately, really comes into play. Where if someone gives you a very generous competing job offer, and you think there’s no way my employer is even going to match this, you might be surprised, especially if you’ve made yourself kind of indispensable in some way, in particular, the long term or medium term, not cost, but inconvenience of replacing you can be quite high. And throwing money at that situation is often from a employer’s perspective, a good solution to avoid it. So you might be surprised how much of a raise you can get from just following these simple bits of advice.

Frank Butler 22:03
Yeah, I think that’s something to dress in terms of that employer end of it, right? I mean, the employers are facing a big challenge right now, with the mass migration of employees, right now, they’re losing a lot of institutional knowledge. So if you’re indispensable, there’s potentially this institutional, institutional knowledge you possess, that would be actually quite damaging to that company, if you left. So there’s that element at play too. And companies are realizing this, with these exodus of employees. So do keep that in mind that you might have some institutional knowledge that’s important to the to that company, and it would cost them more, or inconvenience them or whatever we want to put it at, to have to find somebody to replace you, and then bringing them up to speed on the institutional end of things. I do want to cover one last little element of this too. It’s not always about just salary. Right now’s a good opportunity to throw in things like extra vacation time, or maybe more of a hybrid work setup, where you’re working from home three days a week, or going into whatever it might be trying to negotiate that aspect of it, too. This is a time where it’s not just about your pay. Well, pay is great, pay is not everything, there can be some great added conveniences of getting some additional perks, that this is the time to negotiate. I’ve, I’ve frequently told people don’t, you know, some companies are pretty rigid about the time off. But if you’re bringing experience with you, this is the time to also say, I also qualify for this give me you know, it’s time to give me a more flexible schedule or whatever it might be.

Paul Harvey 23:41
Again, especially right now, I don’t think there’s ever been a better time history to to negotiate for that either. Because we’ve all learned how to be more flexible, and how to give employees more flexible schedules. And it’s not nearly as outlandish a thing to say, you know, “I want to work from home two days a week now,” as it would have been two years ago. So use that to your advantage. And, again, the planets have just aligned. There’s…I don’t know that there’s ever been a better time to try to negotiate a better situation for yourself compensation-wise at work? So, don’t uh…

Frank Butler 24:15
…work for higher ed, you’re gonna have to get a job offer. Pretty much.

Paul Harvey 24:19

Frank Butler 24:19
Conversely, even if it’s not a better time, you know…

Paul Harvey 24:21
Well, that’s actually a good point. Because there’s there are industries where these rules don’t apply. For whatever reason, because of legal things, or just the culture of different industries. None of this advice applies to every single company, every single job, every industry, but it applies to a lot.

Frank Butler 24:37

Paul Harvey 24:38
Tailor the advice as necessary for your specific situation.

Frank Butler 24:41
And I think what you just said is an important thing for people to understand. everybody’s situation is a little different. So you can’t just take I don’t care if you’re reading, you know, the seven habits of highly effective people or if you’re listening to this conversation, or you’re seeing something, you’ve got to always think about how do I adapt it to my situation? because it’s usually not pure one for one doesn’t always work for you. So it’s figuring out that best option. And this just requires you to stop and reflect on it for a little bit, debrief it a little in your head and go, Alright, what’s the approach that’s going to work for me? You know, some bosses are going to be awful. And your best bet is to just get a job offer somewhere else and get, there’s no point asking for a raise.

Paul Harvey 25:21
Remember, don’t play that card unless you’re willing to do that.

Frank Butler 25:23

Paul Harvey 25:24
I’ve seen it happen. Someone says, “Okay, that’s a good offer. We’ll miss you.” And the person’s saying, “Wow, oh shoot they called my bluff on this.”

Frank Butler 25:31
Right. Well, you know, you got to be prepared to go. But you know, in these contexts, though, if you have a boss that isn’t that great, this is a good time to find your way out the door and into a new place.

Paul Harvey 25:42
In which case, I’d say money is not the most important thing.

Frank Butler 25:44

Paul Harvey 25:45
Get yourself to a better working situation, even if it’s for even money, or a slight pay cut, whatever.

Frank Butler 25:50
Yeah, exactly. And this is something that we probably should do an episode on, too, is that we as humans, and I say this in class all the time, we as humans tend to dislike uncertainty. We see people stay in relationships way past their sell by date, right? Because they’re afraid of the unknown. They think the grass isn’t going to be greener, those kinds of things. I mean, there’s always use what you know is easier to deal with and what you don’t know. And people stay in jobs far longer than they should they get exploited. And then when they find out they’ve been exploited it…at some point, they’re going to just become bitter. Don’t…don’t let yourself get there. Just don’t let yourself get there.

Paul Harvey 26:27
Good point.

Frank Butler 26:28
Anyway, rate, subscribe, you know, all that fun stuff. Send us your input. You know, we’d love to hear from you.

Paul Harvey 26:34
Get yourself a raise, give us a you know, 5% cut.

Frank Butler 26:39
We would be happy to accept a little bit of you know…the cost of podcasting is going up too, so…we we don’t get paid for this.

Paul Harvey 26:48
This whole conversation has been a lead up. We need to get paid people.

Frank Butler 26:55
Nah, we’re good. We do this…we do this out of love for you. All right. So good luck, everyone.

Paul Harvey 27:01
Get that raise. Pay us in ratings on-

Frank Butler 27:04

Paul Harvey 27:04
Apple podcasts.

Frank Butler 27:05
Subscribe. Tell your friends. Tell your friends. You can pay us that way.

Paul Harvey 27:09

Frank Butler 27:09
Have a good one, everybody.

Paul Harvey 27:10
Good day, folks.

The Busyness Paradox is distributed by Paul Harvey and Frank Butler. Our theme music is adapted from “It’s Business Time” by Jemaine Clements and Bret McKenzie, our production manager is Justin Wuntaek. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode, and we’d love to hear from you. Please send any questions, comments or ideas for future episode topics to input@busynessparadox.com, or find us on Twitter. Also, be sure to visit our website, busynessparadox.com, to read our blog posts and for links to the articles and other resources mentioned in today’s show. Finally, please take a moment to rate and follow or subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google Podcasts or wherever the heck you get your podcasts.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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